Genesis

1 - Can anything lukewarm and truly stay lukewarm forever? Can we even truly call it relating if the "heat" isn't there?
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2 - How appropriate an example of "against the tide of religion" than the one shared at the 10:50 service. Made me ponder the difference between "religion" and "relationship".

I was just beyond baffled by the idea that another religion might be considering allowing people to refer to the Holy Trinity as anything other than Father, Son and Holy Ghost so I went home to Goggle the article in USA Today to see the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.

Just reading the explanations and justifications made me think that our society will go to any length to be politically correct and this sort of topic is once again more "me" centered that actually furthering the world's knowledge of who God really is. In looking at the alternatives in the list USA Today published I'm hardly clear on how these can be apples to apples "swapouts".

I do believe that all of this awareness of comfort zones might very well be also one of the reasons its hard for adults to start up meaningful relationships with each other. (Comment this)

3 - , I've lived a lukewarm life. In particular I think to the many years that I've sat in the pews listening but not doing, completely at fault for not wanting more from my relationship with God, my relationship with the people around me and when I examine it from my angle it probably looked okay but when I think about God looking in - it's not a pretty picture, in fact it is downright chilly. (Comment this)

4 - I think it is very easy to become lukewarm. It is very hard in our society to express your beliefs without offending someone.

The DaVinci Code comes out and we take a lukewarm approach not wanting to really insult or offend anyone because we may turn them off to Christianity. So nothing is really done one way or the other.

Gay marriage, abortion - two BIG controversial topics that are hitting Christians head-on. But I have come to realize being a Christian doesn't mean you are opposed to either one of these. Christians have different viewpoints on these issues. So again, we remain lukewarm so we don't get caught up in all the controversy and political garbage that goes along with standing up on issues.

Changing Father, Son, Holy Spirit to gender neutral or anything that really catches your fancy - I don't know I like dogs, cats and fish. This is getting to be a society of feel-gooders.

I am feeling this is getting out of control, but in my anger I am offending family, friends, churches. So I step back and become lukewarm to issues because being on fire means standing up and being vocal.

Being on fire means standing alone on the corner with your signs. On fire means standing up to your family when they say gay marriage isn't hurting them so it is okay with them. On fire would mean standing up to my children's parents and the schools to tell them I don't think it's okay to teach my young children about sex and birth control and abortion!!!!!! But that puts me right in line with the firing squad.

Lukewarm is an easy, safe place to be. I can sit back and if I'm asked my opinion about something, I can tell them in the privacy of our conversation, but flower it up a little if I see I am offending them somehow.

But what price am I paying for being a lukewarm Christian??? I risk being cut off from the vine!!!!!

Let's FIRE UP!!!!! (Comment this)

5 - kim, A wholehearted AMEN Kim <grin>

I think its a matter of unwaivering conviction and dedication towards working on a relationship with God and those examples that you list above may result in a natural progression. What's that Steven Curtis Chapman song ..."I'm divin' in, I'm going deep..."

I agree that its easy for the "voice calling out in society" to be tainted with untruth and if we don't question it or give voice to the truth, who will? Much like Jeremiah probably did in these lessons ahead, our culture is full of things that need to be exposed or challenged. Isn't it sad that it comes down to firing squads and fear of ridicule to share your belief? But I totally understand what you are saying. I often think I back down because I don't think my little voice will make much a difference or perhaps I question if my approach is too "in your face" that I'm sending too negative of a message and perhaps I just question myself too much...more a lack of faith that God will lead me to the right approach perhaps?

I don't even think we have to go so far to the easier examples, what about even just bringing God into the workplace? Last year I was on a volunteer awareness committee we interviewed a whole host of employees who volunteer. We were all set to launch our site and we were told that we couldn't feature anything that had to do with a church or christian outreach organization unless it was something like boy scouts. Now I understand there's political correctness and a corporate image however I really disagreed how something as minor as that could really be harmful. My small voice lost that battle, but I keep wondering if I gave up to easily?

Although I'm not sure I'm a "holding a sign on a streetcorner sort of communicator", I do believe that everyone does have a gift of "communication" and a choice to work the message out of their heart.

I know I have a voice and its up to me to first make sure I'm in line with the truth and then find a way to express it. Besides the topics Kim raises (which are all very good) what other areas do you think we need to fire up? (Comment this)

6 - There is a misperception (I think) that standing up for Jesus is a strident, in-your-face thing. That ignores all the Scriptural counsel, for example: "Let your gentleness be evident to all" Phil. 4:5; "Be prepared to give an answer to everyone . . . but do this with gentleness and respect" 1 Pet. 3:15; "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Rom. 12:18.

I don't think this is the same as lukewarm--it's still being passionate about our relationship with Jesus and about being anxious to share that relationship with others. But it's not about straightening others out when they haven't gotten it right, according to our understanding. It's about first listening to their (mis)understanding and then sharing our's.

While there may be times when God leads us to be more aggressive and confrontational, I would want to be sure that it was the Spirit prompting that approach and not just that I found something offensive to what I believe (making it as much about me as it is about Him). The Spirit's desire for me, after all, includes love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. So if the Spirit is prompting me to "confront" an issue or a behavior, I believe that my "confrontation" would have to be consistent with those characteristics.

It's still about going against the tide--it's just going against the tide as the Spirit directs. The world's way of going against the tide is to make a big splash (a battle of the wills)--I think the Spirit's way is to redirect the current. Am I all wet? (Comment this)

7 - Jim, Not at all wet Jim. I think it is a great reminder of the many ways we can communicate or just "be". Perhaps it is just as important to work through keeping a relationship with Jesus and more naturally that will just translate in the way we go about our regular lives anyhow? (We will have more natural conversations, we will know when to confront, we will want to do more, etc.)

We have a new leader at our company and when he introduced himself to our group he shared what was important to him and one of the top things he shared was his belief in God and his desire to work on understanding what his mission is etc.. I can see a reflection of his belief in the everday interaction he has with all of us and although its never been an actual conversation about God or "in-your-face" there's that interest in relational community that is there and maybe I'm just overthinking that his actions are there because his relationship with God "reflects". (Comment this)

8 - I certainly don't feel you need to be in-you-face in everything that's going on. If that were true, I could be in everyone's face all the time - and I'm sure they would probably be in mine for some things, too.

But as Christians we do have to stand up and voice the word of God. Jesus also spoke truth. He rebuked. He said things that were hurtful, but truthful.

Jesus didn't just walk around with his head in the sand and say he was right with God so therefore he didn't need to worry about anyone else.

I don't think we need to be confrontational. But I do think Christians need to start sharing what the bible teaches us.

Homosexuality is wrong. And our own Christian churches are saying it's okay.

Abortion is wrong. And again, our own Christian churches are saying it's okay.

So what should we do? Do we need to picket or set abortion clinics on fire? No - I don't think that's the answer. But we do need to be a little riled up when we read this stuff in the newspaper - changing the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be more gender neutral. That's just plain upsetting to me.

Planned Parenthood moving into my backyard. That's upsetting to me. Now, what do I do about it? That's where being lukewarm and being on fire comes in.

Am I going to do something about it - education, petition, picketing, sponsoring other prolife movements - being on fire for something. Or do I just continue to run my kids to their baseball games and forget it's there because I know I am all right with God - being lukewarm.

Do I share the gospel when a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door? Or do I say, oh, thanks anyway, but I have a church. On Fire or lukewarm?

When a friend or coworker is struggling with work or personal issues, do I listen and comfort them and tell them I will pray for them? Or do I just listen and comfor them? Lukewarm or on Fire?

On Fire doesn't mean obnoxious. It doesn't have to mean loud and unruly. But I do believe it means that you are almost looking for the opportunities God places in front of you every minute of every day to reflect and teach and spread his word.

Having a personal relationship is the first step. Now we need to spread the word, the love, the fire.

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9 - I agree with you Kim, that we need to be looking for the opportunities that God places before us to share our faith with a world that desperately needs it. And we need to be looking for opportunities to grow our own faith, which includes taking action. I don't do enough of either one.

The issue I was getting at, though, was "how do you identify the time for action?" If something offends our beliefs, is there an automatic need for action? I don't think so. We do need to be offended (and to determine why) and we need to avoid becoming numb to the offenses of the world. But which offenses are Spirit-led calls for action? That's where it gets murkier for me.

I read a devotional by John Fischer awhile back that made the point well, I thought. He was responding to a question about what to do when people around you misuse God's name. Here is what he wrote (I apologize for the length):

“I think this really depends on the relationship. If it is one with respect, then you can ask someone to alter their behavior on your behalf based on what you believe even if they don't. In a relationship with respect, you would do the same thing for them, as long as what they were asking of you didn't violate any of your core beliefs. But if they don't give a rip about what you believe and have no intention of altering their behavior for you or anyone else, then what are you going to do? Ignore them? Leave them alone in their bitterness? This is where the love and compassion of the Lord comes in. Believe me, he's put up with a lot more than bad language in order to love people!

"Imagine what God tolerates every day from a world that he loves. The Scriptures teach that God is actually shelving his anger over the wickedness of the world, because this is the season of salvation. This is when he wants to major on the gift of forgiveness he is offering in Christ. There will be a time of retribution coming, but right now, he's tolerating all kinds of bad behavior in order to save as many as possible.

"I think we also have to honestly ask ourselves whether our wish for unbelievers to change their language around us is more out of concern for ourselves than for them. So what if we feel uncomfortable? Shouldn't we get over it for the sake of the relationship? You can't ask someone who doesn't care about God to act like they do just for your sake.

"I am reminded about a story a New Testament prof at a Christian college once told me about his kids, one of whom was having a birthday. The other was typically jealous of the attention his sibling was receiving, and the father had to take his son aside and tell him, “Look, son. It's not about you today; it's all about your sister.”

"Suddenly, he could envision his heavenly Father taking him aside in the face of a world that offends him constantly, and whispering, “Look, son. It's not about you anymore; it's about them now.”

"If you think about it, isn't that the way it should be?"

It seems equally true about the specific issues you raise, Kim, like homosexuality and abortion. Should we be offended ("riled up")?--of course. But what are the Spirit-led opportunities for action? Certainly we can share the truths God has given us, when we have a relationship with the hearer that makes us credible. If the Spirit prompts us, we can and should participate in the pro-life or pro-marriage organizations in any number of ways. But I believe that our motivation (reflected in our actions) needs to be a Spirit-fed love for the misguided, not because we are offended and angry.
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10 - Jim, Wow Jim, I think you are right on!! What good does anger do anyway? Does it change anything, no! Love on the other hand, changed the world. (Comment this)