Genesis

1 - God knows the beginning and the end of us so I suppose that His master plan isn't "taking" a life - it's just life and the next step brings eternal life? But what about people who don't believe? They still die naturally - does God just chalk it up to failure if he takes their life before their hearts are changed? (Comment this)

2 - The medical community has many wonderful tools that have been created to preserve a life that might have been taken sooner without those same means of "life support". So if I choose to discontinue life support or my parents sign a DNR - if I honor this, is this murder? Should we pursue every conceivable way to keep a relative on earth? Does the pursuit of science interfere with God's work or is it God's work? (Comment this)

3 - I keep going back to the example of someone killing the person I love the most in this world - and I'm to love the murderer? The truth and action of loving a person who stole their life - I'm not sure I would even know what this would look like? Is there a middle ground between hate/anger and love? (Comment this)

4 - I kinda undertstand how suicide can be murder.. but if it considered "murder" wouldn't the police/medical feild call it a "homocide" instead of "suicide"?

can you forgive someone who has taken their own life? if they've taken their life does that "ban" them from going to heaven? (Comment this)

5 - Interesting questions, Curious.

I'd like to think that suicide wouldn't automatically ban someone from heaven but rather be factored into the life that God knows the person lived and the other sins and beliefs the person may have experienced. What do you think?

Its been a year since a family member took his own life. He left several children and a wife behind and no one knows why. (Well - two people know - God and him.) I'd like to think he made it to heaven, but I'm not entirely sure.

Maybe that's why its difficult to pinpoint a Biblical reference condoning suicide? Yet, saying someone got into heaven by taking his own life...if it were that easy then what would stop everyone from sinning this way? On the opposite end of the coin - its so beyond hard for family/friends to think of someone they loved banished to hell and if that's true, I just don't really wish these thoughts on anyone and hope that all who are going through similar struggles with thoughts find peace.

As for forgivness - we pray "as we forgive those who trespass against us" - It was their ultimate sin, but it effected our lives as well...so the capacity to forgive something that is just so wrong it difficult but at some point love and forgiveness are probably healthier - especially in reading above about anger consuming and love prevailing. (Comment this)

6 - God does not fail to love us, though in our life we fail to love Him. So at the end of life, it is not God's failure that we died with hard heartedness toward our Creator. As David said of his son (with Bathsheba) that died, God will have mercy on who He will. (Comment this)

7 - I had a brother commit suicide. I believe that when we are forgiven by God, we are forgiven. Consider I just left Sunday worship, complete with Communion. I asked for and received forgiveness from God. As I was leaving, I saw a beautiful woman and lusted after her in my heart. I then got in my car and drove away. One block later I was hit by another car and I was killed. Do I now go to hell because of the lust in my heart? Was God's forgiveness only for the sin up to the time of forgiveness? Or did he forgive me-- period? I believe he forgave me! When it comes to suicide, we don't know the condition of the person's mind. If that person had enough mental process to believe in God, ask for and receive forgiveness, then afterward commit suicide, is he any more guilty than I was when I lusted? Also, which of us has ever truly been to the point a person reaches when he/she can actually follow through on suicide? Many of us may at times think of suicide when things are going poorly, but if we've never reached the point of actually doing it, we'll never know how "sick" that person was. Suicide is sin, but remember that God's children are forgiven for the sin in their lives if they ask him for it. Period! (Comment this)

8 - Wow! I'm pleasantly surprised that there is some good discussion taking place here. I figured that Pastor Ben would be talking about "Packers this, packers that".... :)

All joking aside, this is a really tough subject. I view the definition of murder as the act of illegally killing someone. Suicide and homicide are types of murder but I think that we often don't consider suicide as murder because there is no further action that can be taken on a person who commits suicide, so we never hear it referred to as a crime. Nonetheless, I think that suicide is illegal. Does anyone know for sure?

I had a friend that committed suicide several years ago and during that time, I too wrestled with the thought of people who commit suicide being condemned. As far as sin goes, I don't think that there's anything special about suicide in the sin department, as I don't think the bible mentions suicide as "unforgivable".

The question then becomes, if we die before asking Jesus to forgive a sin, are we condemned? We are all entangled in sin more than we even know and could potentially die with sins that we've never asked God's forgiveness for. Over time, I've learned that Jesus paid the price for all sins, even sins that we commit in the future and ones we don't even realize we've committed. As Christians, we repent of our sins and put our trust in God but we never stop sinning. Suicide is a sin that ends your life but salvation is given by what Jesus has done for us, not by anything that we’ve done.
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9 - Amen Jim! (Comment this)

10 - So when murder is unjust or self inflicted its a sin but what about war? God says to love thine enemies - does the clause "self defense" as a ruling government to maintain order and fight good against evil cover all of these sins? Do the soliders also each have to attone for sinning just so that I can be protected from evil? (If so, may God bless and forgive them for protecting me from our enemies.)

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